hI peteG
yes I will be painting the fire boat after I have finished my Atlantic 21 and then I'll hope to run it on a regular basses as my main boat with the swordsman

Hello Bat 44,

An Impressive fleet you have! I do like the Fireboat of course - with that equipment stowed in the well. Mine is rather plainer at the stern. Are you planning on painting this one?
The Sea Urchin has that classic look of the Aerokit collection - I haven't been able to acquire any of these boats yet, but that will be my task over the summer and beyond.
Many thanks for sharing these pics.

and last but not least the sea hornet yet to be restored

up next is the fpl

then this one came along, and yes it is the f p l

and this one as well

hI peteG
here's some pic's of my aerokit fleet

hI PeteG
my fleet are the fire boat, swordsman, FPL, and the sea hornet witch is waiting to be restored, I did have the sea queen but that was some time ago, but my brother has just bought one of Jotika's new kits. Have got my eye on one of the Aerokits torpedo boats that's hanging round my club house,as to the cleaver prop it's a three bladed prop made for racing at high speed not made for submerged running at slow speed but because of their shape they cut through the water better than a standard prop so can be used by us scale boaters but they need to be balanced before using them unless they are balanced for you. will try and post some pics of my fleet for you in the next few days

Hello Bat44,
There seems to be a lot of boating action up around the midlands and the east, they are all a bit too far for me to travel to from Kent otherwise I would like to be there Ie Fireboat funday and Wicksteed etc.
Yes, the prop by all accounts is the wrong type for the boat. Thats actually good news - I can put that right!
Looks like a 40mm standard will be fitted.
What does your Aerokit fleet consist of then?
PeteG....

Pete
I reckon that prop is a 45X judging by the amount of pitch, that is way too much. the speed 600's dont even like a 40X

the 40mm standard prop should sort it, will pop you one in the post at weekend

David

hI peteG
it looks like a standard 45mm prop to me ,and combined with your prop shaft angle could be coursing you to get hot then the amps go up then blown fuse. try your boat on the 40mm prop and see how you go, if all fails put the higher amp speed controller in keep with the 40mm prop and with luck all should be ok. just hope I don't have the same problem as you when I start running by boat,but as I have not finished restoring it yet I will have to wait. as a matter of interest I will be going to Alfold and will be taken my fire boat with some more of my Aerokit fleet so if you are in the neighbourhood come along

HI Bat44
I am going to try one of Dave's surplus props which he has kindly offered! This is what I am currently using - 45mm across tips of blade M4 - its a bit severe looking (is this a cleaver prop? ).
The run time on my boat isn't actually that good so this may be the answer.
As regards balancing that will be a no, I haven't got that far!
Peteg.

dbninja is right the 45mm prop is a bit big for the 600 motor on direct drive try the 40mm prop and see how you go if all fails go with the bigger speed controller. not to sure about the cleaver prop yes they are good but are they good for a beginner ? are they balanced from prop shop or do you need to do that? ok if you know how stick with the cheaper option if I was you,but if it works then go for it

pete
a 40mm standard pitch (not X) is about ideal for the speed 600, sounds like you are over propping that set-up, you need to take some load off everything and reduce your amps being drawn.
it will also increase your run time!
what size prop shaft are you using? if its 4mm I could pop you a prop in the post as I have plenty of spares.
I use the same prop on all my 600 powered boats.

david

This is an ongoing problem now as I experienced more hesitant running again yesterday (hunting). Blew a fuse too but this time I had feathers wrapped round prop!
I could try changing propeller as you say - what is less pitch? How is pitch measured?
I am running with a 45mm dia prop now - not that oversized I feel.
I have larger Esc but not fitted yet.
Actually found a problem with the Esc on/off switch - it had poor connection so this has been ditched and replaced.
But your prop suggestion is, as you say simple and cheap. I will try next.
Many Thanks.

you could try a smaller prop, or one with less pitch as a very cheap fix, as the prop is a cause of amp draw. Might drop your top speed, but the play off will be cooler running, and more than likely longer run times.

I changed from a 50mm "x" prop to a 45mm prop shop cleaver, ( not cheap, but cheaper than new speed controllers) far more efficient and cooler, I was def over propped, no noticeable drop in speed, cheap "x" props are only a few quid, its worth having a few (or borrowing froma pal and not giving back! 😀 )and trying a few, and if you have an amp meter (ÂA£15 from 4-max) you can leaver it wired in the boat and measure max amps, and volts

Hello bat44,
I did run my boat yesterday with new motor as a starting point to troubleshooting. it ran fine, however I was wary about running it too fast for too long. I might well change the Esc to a 25a - that sounds a likely cause to my problem -many thanks.
Peteg.

if you are blowing the fuse then you are pushing more than 15amps ,same with the hesitant manner to much power for your set up, fine for slow speed but go high speed to much for the speed controller to handle so blown fuse or hesitant running might have to go to a higher amp speed controller, had the same problem with some of my fellow club members

Took my fierboat out today despite very gusty conditions at Blackheath pond, under full power boat again behaved in a hesitant manner but ran beautifully in between. Then, no power at all and drifting in the wind in centre of lake!
Managed to nudge it back in with my grandsons launch after 20 mins.
No obvious overheating on any cables or motor(warm but not hot) but on checking fuse (15a) found it was blown.
No idea why yet. What to do next?

Hello David,

Ok, I will try that on Sunday at Blackheath and post the results.
Many thanks.
PeteG.

Pete

give the boat a good run at speed and bring it in off a high speed run, check to see if the motor, wiring, or speed controller are getting too hot

might be the speed controller dropping out on the thermal overload if the resistance in the system is increasing

David

I took out my fireboat again today at a local lake. As in past weeks it has sailed very well but it has a habit of "hunting" under full power. I have fitted a fully charged new battery, transmitter is also fully charged. it runs fine for a time then seems to lose power momentarily then picks up again.
Does anyone have any suggestions or likely causes please.
PeteG.

Hello Paul,
I have managed to Improve the connection by using a heavily soldered connection onto a gold plated sprung connector. The connector itself though did not allow any mechanical connection only a 'well' to run the solder into.

This has eliminated nearly all heat at the joint.
Thanks for your help.
Regards
Pete G

Pete G,

As you have found out joints can cause power loss which in turn causes heat to be dissipated.

Every connection has resistance, R and every R causes loss of power P = IIR P increases with R and with the square of current, very significant and can be very hot - try this - when electric kettle has been on and water boiled pull out the three pin plug from the wall socket and then feel the live pin - take care it can be very hot; 12 amps 12 amps R of connection and fuse in plug causes quite some heat loss !!!

Solution solder joints making sure it is a good mechanical joint before applying solder - how often are you going to change the motor and/or ESC - only needs to desoldered if you do need to change things - its the best electrical solution (the least loss of power).

Tall Paul, CEng.

I have just carried out a water test to check for any flow through the cooling jacket. it was minimal at this point in bath!
What has alarmed me a little is how hot the connection to ESC became (one side only). On checking I found the bullet connector was just not connected at all well?
You can see the poor connection in picture Ie. the bullet connector had parted company from the cable as I pulled them apart. Can anybody suggest or recommend a better method of connecting the two cables from ESC to the motor? Most of the trouble I have had with the electrics has been at this connection.

HI Pete
You will onlyt find out in time re the resin coat inside. Make sure you dry out any water inside after each sail and you should be OK. Can you not just fit the frames without the glazing? May not be a problem anyway as the cabin space is quite large. I guess you are now ready for your first Sail so good luck!
Dave

Hello Dave,
I did wonder about glazing because I bought that set of windows and frames from this website to use eventually!
I think I might just glaze the cabin and front of boat and leave the rear compartments unglazed -its all a bit cosmetic anyway!
I thought I would varnish the hull inside and out as a final, late(!) precaution. I did not get round to putting resin down on the inside floor - do you think I should have done so?
Pete.

HI Pete
Shouldn't make much difference really. I am assuming your windows are unglazed so heat can escape. I was just trying to ensure you did not enclose the ESC with little or no airflow. Try your model for a few minutes on the lake then bring it back to the bank and check for leaks and how hot the motor / ESC are. if they are more than hand hot you may need to provide water cooling and/or use a different (smaller) prop. Good luck
Dave

Hello Dave,
I have actually completed all the wiring connections today and have tested and set-up the transmitter speed control and rudder orientation. All seems ok at this point.
I note your comment about ventilation around the ESC - well of course it is in an enclosed compartment mounted on a block away from hull - do you think piping an airflow from above via tubes would be practical or necessary?
PeteG.

HI Pete
My ESC is attached with velcro to the plate across the hull floor. I believe I used epoxy to fasten the floor to the hull but any water resistant glue would probably work. Make sure there is plenty of ventilation around the ESC.
Dave

Hello Dave,
I have finally got the rudder and servo set in a suitable
position -with your help and my local model shop I now know the basics of setting up! I have got rudder and servo arms set at equal distances now and movement is smooth, if rather a lot of it!
I have started wiring up some items today, leaving all fixings loose until I get a satisfactory and tidy layout. Will need to build a support block for ESC on hull floor. What glue would you use here?
PeteG

HI Pete
Glad to hear you are progressing with the rudder. The ESC only controls the motor so you cannot set up the rudder servo from the ESC. Some transmitters have built in adjustments to alter the throw of the servos on a couple of channels by means of a trimmer on the front of the Transmitter.
Unfortunately this is not found on the cheaper economy sets so you may not have the facility on your transmitter.
To make the rudder move less either move the connection on the rudder arm further from its centre of rotation or move the connection on the servo arm nearer from its centre of rotation. As you have discovered it is a bit of a balancing act to get the correct movement and no binding at extreems of travel.
Dave

Hello Dave,
I have repositioned the rod on servo and rudder arms several times -I might just be getting near to an optimum position thanks to a post from Roger. I take some comfort tho' from what you say regarding having too much rudder movement can be disastrous - I seem to have ample movement either way now plus the set-up instructions with the ESC describes how to set max speed point on 1 channel and hopefully provide a calibration for max rudder movement on other channel too?
I wish I could have sailed on the lake today! Some way off yet. Have to fit fuse in power line too - need to do some wiring for that! The battery and Esc connectors are a mating pair too - now have to break into one wire for fuse.
PeteG......

Hello Roger,
I found that info a little hard to follow at first! 15-16mm from centre of screw to where rod joins servo -ok. Similarly for rudder -this dimension happens to be wildly different on my set-up. Im beginning to feel seriously lacking in knowledge here!
I have several close up pictures before I dismantled the original setup so I might just resort to resetting it to that.
Not been a good weekend!
Will try again with the lube operation.
Thanks Roger.

HI Pete
If your model is travelling fast then you will not need much rudder movement as too much at speed may cause your model to turn over. My rudder moves about 30deg either side of centre and is very responsive. Roger explained how to reduce the rudder throw so you should be able to get yours correct. if your transmitter has adjustable throw you can use this also to fine tune, I have a switch that allows me to choose between two settings, one for fast use and the other for slow. Perhaps you may have made it to the lake today?
Dave

HI Pete,you might need to juggle about a little with the length of the servo horn and tiller to get the rudder movement right, I try to keep the distance between the rod and the centre of the servo horn fixing screw around 15/16mm and a similar distance for the tiller, that seems to work for me! increasing the tiller length will reduce rudder movement but increasing the servo horn length may move it too far, I try and keep them similar.
Again similar to DaveM I used a 1/16 ply base fixed into the boat with epoxy under the servo and double sided tape to hold the servo in place, Velcro is good for receiver and ESC but with load on the rudder it can twist and become loose.
When you feed the prop shaft in try doing it slowly and twisting as you would a screw thread, you'll find much less gets pushed out of the other end, I always give a light coat of lube to the shaft as well as putting some into the tube before fitting. Roger

Hello Dave,
I am most grateful for the info that you post - none of which I take as a criticism- far from it! I did think it was a fairly original model as it came with some nice solid brass fittings Ie. winch and tow hook.
I have not had much success though in moving the servo. I'm obviously not getting the right positioning - it keeps locking up on movement before I reach a correct position for the rudder at either extremity. its not been very satisfying so far.
Now I am lining up the motor and coupling in order to secure in position. it looks ok with very little end float!
Motor spins fine under power, whether it gets too hot remains to be seen at a later date. Unable to KEEP vaseline in the shaft tho' -pumped in plenty but most of it came out again once shaft fed back into tube?
Servo may remain put for first sailing.
I too will use velcro to secure Esc and Receiver - its all very convenient for me and effective.

HI Pete
Yes saw the post from Roger, but had already promised to post when looking at the photo gallery. Hopefully you will get the idea from both our setups.
The servo is attached to the floor on wood packing and held with velcro or double sided tape - sorry I can't remember which but it has never failed and remains solid to this day.
My comment regarding the age of the vessel was not meant as a criticism but refers to the fact that this kit was very popular in the 1960's and many seen today are from that era - especially if it has been fitted with an Ic engine. Modern fittings were not available, so much innovation was required by the budding modeller! At least you can claim to have an original Aerokits model and not one of the after market copies!
Dave

Hello Dave, Your boat certainly sits up nicely! Yes, my boat does seem to be rather aged and I will have to redo the servo linkage when I move it aft to the well deck, which seems to be the favourite location. Then I will have that mid compartment empty for the battery.
Did you see the post from 'Thelego' (Roger) he too has positioned his servo on its side like yours - can you tell me how you secured this to the hull floor please? I presume you have packed out the space underneath and straddled the keel and glued?

HI Pete
as promised here are the pics of my battery / rudder set up.
The battery is an 11.1v LiPo. As you can see it lies flat on the floor. Also pic of top of boat to give you an idea of how it looks, plus a view on the lake. Certainly no slouch.
Dave

Hello Roger,
Thanks for your ongoing information, I'm sort of begginning to get more ambitious about moving the servos etc. and locating the battery in the best place rather than the most convenient! I like your neat servo linkage and I will probably do mine the very same. Waiting for motor before going any further.

HI Pete, here are a couple of pictures reference batteries and rudder servo as mentioned in your photo gallery. My servo arrangement sounds much like that described by DaveM in his reply. My battery is currently centrally mounted but it's a but high and I'm concerned it will raise the centre of gravity too much causing the boat to roll a little. I think it's better to have the battery weight as low as possible so I'll try this out and if it's a problem, if so I'll move it. DaveM suggests transversely in the same compartment which is what I would if I were you and what I may still do myself. Roger

Hello Bat44-
Thanks for the pics - always useful.
Most of my electrics arrived today and I've been trying to get the hang of the wiring procedure. I wasn't expecting to have to consider the BEC factor (!) but the Esc has a BEC built in -unlike the existing boat that I am running. The Esc is a Viper Marine 20.
Now I have to cut the motor mounts to accomodate the new motor (it had an IC engine before). Could be tricky!

PeteG

hI peteg if you go to the photo gallery I have some pics of my boat under the name of rshermanking with one pic showing the bat and motor set up but could put more pics on if that will help

Hello,
I will certainly look forward to seeing your motor set-up pics. I try to take on board all wise information that I can, being a complete beginner at boat building. it has been most interesting comparing the various boats and set-ups
that appear on this forum as the boats are such a classic good looking shape.
As for the angle of prop,well, mine does look to be built at quite a steep angle- I would be interested to compare with yours from the pictures.
I'm not familiar with your 1/2 size D cells?
Any tips on wiring would be useful too.
Pete G

hI peteg I must agree about using the 600 motor on 9.6 as this is what I'll will be using in my 34in boat, but I'am using half size D cell's to give me power and endurance for not much gain in weight.some thing to think about if you put in a new prop and tube, how about changing the angle of the tube as this will put less strain on the motor and give you better run times,not that easy to do and it did take me some time to do but for better run times why not.will post some pics of my motor setup for you

Chris,
Thanks for that supplier info. I will be checking with Cornwall models tomorrow as they too say they have them in stock.
Need to buy a prop shaft too in case my existing one, which is 5/32" dia with an unknown thread will not fit the coupling (M4). I didn't really want to remove the existing prop tube from the hull at this time.
I have had such a variety of opinions on how to best drive the Fireboat - one shop near to me said only twin props would achieve real performance as this model wooden boat is quite heavy in comparison.
However, it stays with single prop! along with other recommendations from Dave and others on this Forum.
Peteg

Puffin Models in Bristol
( http://www.puffinmodels.com/product.php?prod=1066 )
have the Graupner 8.4 v Speed 600 advertised at ÂA£9.95.

Hope that might help

Chris

Dave,
Yes, there it is alright! None at Howes or my local dealer at Chatham.
I will check out Cornwall tomorrow.
Thanks
Pete.

Pete
Cornwall models are showing the 3301 speed 600 in stock.
not at the special offer price that howes had them though.

(not a big fan of the 700 series meself)

you can buy online

db